Intersection of two left cosets is empty












2












$begingroup$


I have $theta,tau, sigmain S_7$, where $theta=(13)(14)(567), tau=(137)(2456),
sigma=(13456)(27)$. I need to find $sigma langlethetaranglecaptaulanglethetarangle$.



I approached this by first computing $langlethetarangle$. I got $langlethetarangle={(13)(24)(567),(576),(13)(24),(675),(13)(24)(576),id}$.



I then worked out the left coset $sigmalanglethetarangle$ by multiplying $(13456)(27)$ by every element in $langlethetarangle$, one by one. That gave me ${(1574632),(134726),(274563),(1346)(257),(263)(457)}$.



Using the same technique, I found $taulanglethetarangle$ to be ${(357)(46),(136247),(37)(456),(1357)(246),(3647),id}$.



But then I get $sigmalanglethetaranglecaptaulanglethetarangle=phi$, since there are no elements occurring in both $sigmalanglethetarangle$ and $taulanglethetarangle$.



Why is the intersection empty? If I have done this right, is there an easier way to tell that the intersection of two cosets will be empty, without having to work out each individual result (since that is tedious)?






abstract-algebra group-theory







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  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Do you recall the fact that two left cosets are either equal or disjoint? (True for any group and subgroup.)
    $endgroup$
    – darij grinberg
    6 hours ago


















2












$begingroup$


I have $theta,tau, sigmain S_7$, where $theta=(13)(14)(567), tau=(137)(2456),
sigma=(13456)(27)$. I need to find $sigma langlethetaranglecaptaulanglethetarangle$.



I approached this by first computing $langlethetarangle$. I got $langlethetarangle={(13)(24)(567),(576),(13)(24),(675),(13)(24)(576),id}$.



I then worked out the left coset $sigmalanglethetarangle$ by multiplying $(13456)(27)$ by every element in $langlethetarangle$, one by one. That gave me ${(1574632),(134726),(274563),(1346)(257),(263)(457)}$.



Using the same technique, I found $taulanglethetarangle$ to be ${(357)(46),(136247),(37)(456),(1357)(246),(3647),id}$.



But then I get $sigmalanglethetaranglecaptaulanglethetarangle=phi$, since there are no elements occurring in both $sigmalanglethetarangle$ and $taulanglethetarangle$.



Why is the intersection empty? If I have done this right, is there an easier way to tell that the intersection of two cosets will be empty, without having to work out each individual result (since that is tedious)?






abstract-algebra group-theory







share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




Harman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Do you recall the fact that two left cosets are either equal or disjoint? (True for any group and subgroup.)
    $endgroup$
    – darij grinberg
    6 hours ago
















2












2








2





$begingroup$


I have $theta,tau, sigmain S_7$, where $theta=(13)(14)(567), tau=(137)(2456),
sigma=(13456)(27)$. I need to find $sigma langlethetaranglecaptaulanglethetarangle$.



I approached this by first computing $langlethetarangle$. I got $langlethetarangle={(13)(24)(567),(576),(13)(24),(675),(13)(24)(576),id}$.



I then worked out the left coset $sigmalanglethetarangle$ by multiplying $(13456)(27)$ by every element in $langlethetarangle$, one by one. That gave me ${(1574632),(134726),(274563),(1346)(257),(263)(457)}$.



Using the same technique, I found $taulanglethetarangle$ to be ${(357)(46),(136247),(37)(456),(1357)(246),(3647),id}$.



But then I get $sigmalanglethetaranglecaptaulanglethetarangle=phi$, since there are no elements occurring in both $sigmalanglethetarangle$ and $taulanglethetarangle$.



Why is the intersection empty? If I have done this right, is there an easier way to tell that the intersection of two cosets will be empty, without having to work out each individual result (since that is tedious)?






abstract-algebra group-theory







share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




Harman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




I have $theta,tau, sigmain S_7$, where $theta=(13)(14)(567), tau=(137)(2456),
sigma=(13456)(27)$. I need to find $sigma langlethetaranglecaptaulanglethetarangle$.



I approached this by first computing $langlethetarangle$. I got $langlethetarangle={(13)(24)(567),(576),(13)(24),(675),(13)(24)(576),id}$.



I then worked out the left coset $sigmalanglethetarangle$ by multiplying $(13456)(27)$ by every element in $langlethetarangle$, one by one. That gave me ${(1574632),(134726),(274563),(1346)(257),(263)(457)}$.



Using the same technique, I found $taulanglethetarangle$ to be ${(357)(46),(136247),(37)(456),(1357)(246),(3647),id}$.



But then I get $sigmalanglethetaranglecaptaulanglethetarangle=phi$, since there are no elements occurring in both $sigmalanglethetarangle$ and $taulanglethetarangle$.



Why is the intersection empty? If I have done this right, is there an easier way to tell that the intersection of two cosets will be empty, without having to work out each individual result (since that is tedious)?






abstract-algebra group-theory




abstract-algebra group-theory






share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




Harman is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











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asked 6 hours ago









HarmanHarman

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  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Do you recall the fact that two left cosets are either equal or disjoint? (True for any group and subgroup.)
    $endgroup$
    – darij grinberg
    6 hours ago
















  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Do you recall the fact that two left cosets are either equal or disjoint? (True for any group and subgroup.)
    $endgroup$
    – darij grinberg
    6 hours ago










2




2




$begingroup$
Do you recall the fact that two left cosets are either equal or disjoint? (True for any group and subgroup.)
$endgroup$
– darij grinberg
6 hours ago






$begingroup$
Do you recall the fact that two left cosets are either equal or disjoint? (True for any group and subgroup.)
$endgroup$
– darij grinberg
6 hours ago












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















4












$begingroup$

Left (or right) cosets of a subgroup $;H;$ in a group $;G;$ are in fact equivalence classes, the equivalence relation $;sim;$ on $;G;$ being:



$$text{For};x,yin G;,;; xsim yiff x^{-1}yin H$$



We usually write $;xH=yH;$ instead of $;xsim y;$ . Check this is in fact an equivalence relation, and then we know two equivalence classes are either identical or else they're disjoint, and this just means $;xH = yH;;text{or};;xHcap yH=emptyset;$






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    3












    $begingroup$

    Yes, this is standard. Given two left cosets of the same subgroup, either they're the same as sets, or they don't intersect at all.



    As such, all we need to do to find that two cosets of a subgroup are disjoint is to find a single element of one coset that's not in the other coset. An example that comes up fairly often: if $a$ is not an element of the subgroup $H$, the coset $aH$ doesn't intersect $H$.






    share|cite|improve this answer









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      2 Answers
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      2 Answers
      2






      active

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      4












      $begingroup$

      Left (or right) cosets of a subgroup $;H;$ in a group $;G;$ are in fact equivalence classes, the equivalence relation $;sim;$ on $;G;$ being:



      $$text{For};x,yin G;,;; xsim yiff x^{-1}yin H$$



      We usually write $;xH=yH;$ instead of $;xsim y;$ . Check this is in fact an equivalence relation, and then we know two equivalence classes are either identical or else they're disjoint, and this just means $;xH = yH;;text{or};;xHcap yH=emptyset;$






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        4












        $begingroup$

        Left (or right) cosets of a subgroup $;H;$ in a group $;G;$ are in fact equivalence classes, the equivalence relation $;sim;$ on $;G;$ being:



        $$text{For};x,yin G;,;; xsim yiff x^{-1}yin H$$



        We usually write $;xH=yH;$ instead of $;xsim y;$ . Check this is in fact an equivalence relation, and then we know two equivalence classes are either identical or else they're disjoint, and this just means $;xH = yH;;text{or};;xHcap yH=emptyset;$






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          4












          4








          4





          $begingroup$

          Left (or right) cosets of a subgroup $;H;$ in a group $;G;$ are in fact equivalence classes, the equivalence relation $;sim;$ on $;G;$ being:



          $$text{For};x,yin G;,;; xsim yiff x^{-1}yin H$$



          We usually write $;xH=yH;$ instead of $;xsim y;$ . Check this is in fact an equivalence relation, and then we know two equivalence classes are either identical or else they're disjoint, and this just means $;xH = yH;;text{or};;xHcap yH=emptyset;$






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          Left (or right) cosets of a subgroup $;H;$ in a group $;G;$ are in fact equivalence classes, the equivalence relation $;sim;$ on $;G;$ being:



          $$text{For};x,yin G;,;; xsim yiff x^{-1}yin H$$



          We usually write $;xH=yH;$ instead of $;xsim y;$ . Check this is in fact an equivalence relation, and then we know two equivalence classes are either identical or else they're disjoint, and this just means $;xH = yH;;text{or};;xHcap yH=emptyset;$







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered 6 hours ago









          DonAntonioDonAntonio

          177k1492226




          177k1492226























              3












              $begingroup$

              Yes, this is standard. Given two left cosets of the same subgroup, either they're the same as sets, or they don't intersect at all.



              As such, all we need to do to find that two cosets of a subgroup are disjoint is to find a single element of one coset that's not in the other coset. An example that comes up fairly often: if $a$ is not an element of the subgroup $H$, the coset $aH$ doesn't intersect $H$.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                3












                $begingroup$

                Yes, this is standard. Given two left cosets of the same subgroup, either they're the same as sets, or they don't intersect at all.



                As such, all we need to do to find that two cosets of a subgroup are disjoint is to find a single element of one coset that's not in the other coset. An example that comes up fairly often: if $a$ is not an element of the subgroup $H$, the coset $aH$ doesn't intersect $H$.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  3












                  3








                  3





                  $begingroup$

                  Yes, this is standard. Given two left cosets of the same subgroup, either they're the same as sets, or they don't intersect at all.



                  As such, all we need to do to find that two cosets of a subgroup are disjoint is to find a single element of one coset that's not in the other coset. An example that comes up fairly often: if $a$ is not an element of the subgroup $H$, the coset $aH$ doesn't intersect $H$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  Yes, this is standard. Given two left cosets of the same subgroup, either they're the same as sets, or they don't intersect at all.



                  As such, all we need to do to find that two cosets of a subgroup are disjoint is to find a single element of one coset that's not in the other coset. An example that comes up fairly often: if $a$ is not an element of the subgroup $H$, the coset $aH$ doesn't intersect $H$.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered 6 hours ago









                  jmerryjmerry

                  3,737514




                  3,737514






















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