Pouring from empty to empty












2















How to translate to english from a foreign language an idiom that uses two different words that have the same meaning “empty”, to say “pouring from empty to empty”, which means if you pour something from one empty vessel into another empty vessel your achieve nothing. Or talking about someting again and again ( wasting time) without real desire to solve a problem. What would be the nearest equivalent in English language?









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    This question on English Language & Usage is related english.stackexchange.com/q/64079/80039

    – ColleenV
    7 hours ago
















2















How to translate to english from a foreign language an idiom that uses two different words that have the same meaning “empty”, to say “pouring from empty to empty”, which means if you pour something from one empty vessel into another empty vessel your achieve nothing. Or talking about someting again and again ( wasting time) without real desire to solve a problem. What would be the nearest equivalent in English language?









share




















  • 1





    This question on English Language & Usage is related english.stackexchange.com/q/64079/80039

    – ColleenV
    7 hours ago














2












2








2








How to translate to english from a foreign language an idiom that uses two different words that have the same meaning “empty”, to say “pouring from empty to empty”, which means if you pour something from one empty vessel into another empty vessel your achieve nothing. Or talking about someting again and again ( wasting time) without real desire to solve a problem. What would be the nearest equivalent in English language?









share
















How to translate to english from a foreign language an idiom that uses two different words that have the same meaning “empty”, to say “pouring from empty to empty”, which means if you pour something from one empty vessel into another empty vessel your achieve nothing. Or talking about someting again and again ( wasting time) without real desire to solve a problem. What would be the nearest equivalent in English language?







phrase-request idioms idiom-request





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edited 7 hours ago









ColleenV

10.5k53260




10.5k53260










asked 7 hours ago









RushnRushn

729




729








  • 1





    This question on English Language & Usage is related english.stackexchange.com/q/64079/80039

    – ColleenV
    7 hours ago














  • 1





    This question on English Language & Usage is related english.stackexchange.com/q/64079/80039

    – ColleenV
    7 hours ago








1




1





This question on English Language & Usage is related english.stackexchange.com/q/64079/80039

– ColleenV
7 hours ago





This question on English Language & Usage is related english.stackexchange.com/q/64079/80039

– ColleenV
7 hours ago










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















3














There are a number of related idioms, but these depend on context. The most straightforward way to explain is with a more-or-less straight translation:




Nothing gets you nothing.




This would make sense in a situation where you are expected to contribute something to achieve a result, i.e. "If you put in nothing, you get nothing back".



If, on the other hand, you want to say that you can't get something where nothing exists:




You can't get blood from a stone/turnip.




Typically this idiom is used when talking about asking someone for money, i.e. "You can't get money from them because they don't have any."



Another option, to suggest you can't make something fine from coarse material:




You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.




This is often metaphorically applied to people, for example:




My student says he wants to be an operatic singer, but completely he's tone-deaf. I don't know what he expects me to do -- after all, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.




As others have mentioned, "flogging/beating a dead horse" means you can't get effort where there is none left. This is often applied in situations where someone has already made an effort to achieve a goal, to no avail:




He keeps trying to get his book published, but I think he is flogging a dead horse.




Another idiom that implies much effort and activity has been applied to no result




chasing one's tail




like an animal who goes round in circles. This can be used in the situation where you repeatedly talk over an issue without achieving any new insight, agreement, or progress:




The negotiations went on for hours, until the moderators called for a break, saying that the two parties were simply chasing their tails, and needed to approach each other from a different angle.




An idiom for a well-meaning but ultimately futile effort:




rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic




Obviously if the ship is sinking, there is no value in arranging the chairs in a way that might be more convenient. It can be applied to any failing enterprise:




The managers spent weeks looking for ways to cut costs, but all this was just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic as the company's sales were half what they were the previous year, and falling.







share|improve this answer































    3














    "Beating a dead horse" means you are doing something that will have no effect (horses are hit with whips to make them run faster, but if your horse is dead, no amount of whipping will make it move)




    There's no point trying to fix the photocopier; you're just beating a dead horse. It needs a new part so just wait until the repairman comes.




    "Going round in circles" means making no progress to reach a decision.




    John and his team have been going round in circles trying to design a new logo. John wants something simple but other people in the team keep adding details.







    share|improve this answer

































      2














      The first thing that sprang to mind was “an exercise in futility”, or doing something that has no hope of achieving anything useful.




      Trying to bail out the boat with my tea cup was an exercise in futility. The water was coming in too fast.







      share|improve this answer





















      • 1





        There is also a Sisyphean task, but that is more like unending and tormenting and not really useless: merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Sisyphean

        – ColleenV
        7 hours ago











      • Thank you all, but neither seems to fit the meaning in a foreign language. Which is: waste time on useless conversations. “They have nothing new to say and will be spending hours repeating what has already been said many times before ( usually useless, outdated information). May be Sisyphean task is the best option.

        – Rushn
        5 hours ago





















      0














      Flogging a dead horse, perhaps?






      share|improve this answer








      New contributor




      user86782 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.




























        0















        • On the ELU thread that ColleenV linked to, J. Walker suggested spinning your wheels. When a car doesn't have any traction in mud or snow, pressing the accelerator just spins the wheels, and digs the car in deeper.


        • Robbing Peter to pay Paul: You still owe just as much, to just as many people, but you've now added the sin of stealing from Peter.


        • Mexican fire drill: A sedan has four passengers, one by each door. The car stops, everybody gets out, and gets in at a different door. A lot of rapid activity happens, for no significant change.


        • Perhaps the reason you have meetings where you "[talk] about [something] again and again without real desire to solve a problem" is that you have too many chiefs, and not enough Indians? In other words, lots of bosses, but nobody to do the real work.


        • Peeling the onion, in order to find its seeds. No matter how many layers you peel off the onion, you never will find any seeds. And the onion will be destroyed in the process. (Lois McMaster Bujold wrote a scene that she summarized with this phrase.)


        • If I had some ham, I could make a ham sandwich, if only I had some bread. A totally useless thing to say, because you don't have any of the ingredients for the thing you want to make. (If you don't eat ham, feel free to substitute the sandwich ingredient of your choice.)







        share|improve this answer

























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          5 Answers
          5






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          5 Answers
          5






          active

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          active

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          active

          oldest

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          3














          There are a number of related idioms, but these depend on context. The most straightforward way to explain is with a more-or-less straight translation:




          Nothing gets you nothing.




          This would make sense in a situation where you are expected to contribute something to achieve a result, i.e. "If you put in nothing, you get nothing back".



          If, on the other hand, you want to say that you can't get something where nothing exists:




          You can't get blood from a stone/turnip.




          Typically this idiom is used when talking about asking someone for money, i.e. "You can't get money from them because they don't have any."



          Another option, to suggest you can't make something fine from coarse material:




          You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.




          This is often metaphorically applied to people, for example:




          My student says he wants to be an operatic singer, but completely he's tone-deaf. I don't know what he expects me to do -- after all, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.




          As others have mentioned, "flogging/beating a dead horse" means you can't get effort where there is none left. This is often applied in situations where someone has already made an effort to achieve a goal, to no avail:




          He keeps trying to get his book published, but I think he is flogging a dead horse.




          Another idiom that implies much effort and activity has been applied to no result




          chasing one's tail




          like an animal who goes round in circles. This can be used in the situation where you repeatedly talk over an issue without achieving any new insight, agreement, or progress:




          The negotiations went on for hours, until the moderators called for a break, saying that the two parties were simply chasing their tails, and needed to approach each other from a different angle.




          An idiom for a well-meaning but ultimately futile effort:




          rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic




          Obviously if the ship is sinking, there is no value in arranging the chairs in a way that might be more convenient. It can be applied to any failing enterprise:




          The managers spent weeks looking for ways to cut costs, but all this was just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic as the company's sales were half what they were the previous year, and falling.







          share|improve this answer




























            3














            There are a number of related idioms, but these depend on context. The most straightforward way to explain is with a more-or-less straight translation:




            Nothing gets you nothing.




            This would make sense in a situation where you are expected to contribute something to achieve a result, i.e. "If you put in nothing, you get nothing back".



            If, on the other hand, you want to say that you can't get something where nothing exists:




            You can't get blood from a stone/turnip.




            Typically this idiom is used when talking about asking someone for money, i.e. "You can't get money from them because they don't have any."



            Another option, to suggest you can't make something fine from coarse material:




            You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.




            This is often metaphorically applied to people, for example:




            My student says he wants to be an operatic singer, but completely he's tone-deaf. I don't know what he expects me to do -- after all, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.




            As others have mentioned, "flogging/beating a dead horse" means you can't get effort where there is none left. This is often applied in situations where someone has already made an effort to achieve a goal, to no avail:




            He keeps trying to get his book published, but I think he is flogging a dead horse.




            Another idiom that implies much effort and activity has been applied to no result




            chasing one's tail




            like an animal who goes round in circles. This can be used in the situation where you repeatedly talk over an issue without achieving any new insight, agreement, or progress:




            The negotiations went on for hours, until the moderators called for a break, saying that the two parties were simply chasing their tails, and needed to approach each other from a different angle.




            An idiom for a well-meaning but ultimately futile effort:




            rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic




            Obviously if the ship is sinking, there is no value in arranging the chairs in a way that might be more convenient. It can be applied to any failing enterprise:




            The managers spent weeks looking for ways to cut costs, but all this was just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic as the company's sales were half what they were the previous year, and falling.







            share|improve this answer


























              3












              3








              3







              There are a number of related idioms, but these depend on context. The most straightforward way to explain is with a more-or-less straight translation:




              Nothing gets you nothing.




              This would make sense in a situation where you are expected to contribute something to achieve a result, i.e. "If you put in nothing, you get nothing back".



              If, on the other hand, you want to say that you can't get something where nothing exists:




              You can't get blood from a stone/turnip.




              Typically this idiom is used when talking about asking someone for money, i.e. "You can't get money from them because they don't have any."



              Another option, to suggest you can't make something fine from coarse material:




              You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.




              This is often metaphorically applied to people, for example:




              My student says he wants to be an operatic singer, but completely he's tone-deaf. I don't know what he expects me to do -- after all, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.




              As others have mentioned, "flogging/beating a dead horse" means you can't get effort where there is none left. This is often applied in situations where someone has already made an effort to achieve a goal, to no avail:




              He keeps trying to get his book published, but I think he is flogging a dead horse.




              Another idiom that implies much effort and activity has been applied to no result




              chasing one's tail




              like an animal who goes round in circles. This can be used in the situation where you repeatedly talk over an issue without achieving any new insight, agreement, or progress:




              The negotiations went on for hours, until the moderators called for a break, saying that the two parties were simply chasing their tails, and needed to approach each other from a different angle.




              An idiom for a well-meaning but ultimately futile effort:




              rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic




              Obviously if the ship is sinking, there is no value in arranging the chairs in a way that might be more convenient. It can be applied to any failing enterprise:




              The managers spent weeks looking for ways to cut costs, but all this was just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic as the company's sales were half what they were the previous year, and falling.







              share|improve this answer













              There are a number of related idioms, but these depend on context. The most straightforward way to explain is with a more-or-less straight translation:




              Nothing gets you nothing.




              This would make sense in a situation where you are expected to contribute something to achieve a result, i.e. "If you put in nothing, you get nothing back".



              If, on the other hand, you want to say that you can't get something where nothing exists:




              You can't get blood from a stone/turnip.




              Typically this idiom is used when talking about asking someone for money, i.e. "You can't get money from them because they don't have any."



              Another option, to suggest you can't make something fine from coarse material:




              You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.




              This is often metaphorically applied to people, for example:




              My student says he wants to be an operatic singer, but completely he's tone-deaf. I don't know what he expects me to do -- after all, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear.




              As others have mentioned, "flogging/beating a dead horse" means you can't get effort where there is none left. This is often applied in situations where someone has already made an effort to achieve a goal, to no avail:




              He keeps trying to get his book published, but I think he is flogging a dead horse.




              Another idiom that implies much effort and activity has been applied to no result




              chasing one's tail




              like an animal who goes round in circles. This can be used in the situation where you repeatedly talk over an issue without achieving any new insight, agreement, or progress:




              The negotiations went on for hours, until the moderators called for a break, saying that the two parties were simply chasing their tails, and needed to approach each other from a different angle.




              An idiom for a well-meaning but ultimately futile effort:




              rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic




              Obviously if the ship is sinking, there is no value in arranging the chairs in a way that might be more convenient. It can be applied to any failing enterprise:




              The managers spent weeks looking for ways to cut costs, but all this was just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic as the company's sales were half what they were the previous year, and falling.








              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 6 hours ago









              AndrewAndrew

              67.6k676149




              67.6k676149

























                  3














                  "Beating a dead horse" means you are doing something that will have no effect (horses are hit with whips to make them run faster, but if your horse is dead, no amount of whipping will make it move)




                  There's no point trying to fix the photocopier; you're just beating a dead horse. It needs a new part so just wait until the repairman comes.




                  "Going round in circles" means making no progress to reach a decision.




                  John and his team have been going round in circles trying to design a new logo. John wants something simple but other people in the team keep adding details.







                  share|improve this answer






























                    3














                    "Beating a dead horse" means you are doing something that will have no effect (horses are hit with whips to make them run faster, but if your horse is dead, no amount of whipping will make it move)




                    There's no point trying to fix the photocopier; you're just beating a dead horse. It needs a new part so just wait until the repairman comes.




                    "Going round in circles" means making no progress to reach a decision.




                    John and his team have been going round in circles trying to design a new logo. John wants something simple but other people in the team keep adding details.







                    share|improve this answer




























                      3












                      3








                      3







                      "Beating a dead horse" means you are doing something that will have no effect (horses are hit with whips to make them run faster, but if your horse is dead, no amount of whipping will make it move)




                      There's no point trying to fix the photocopier; you're just beating a dead horse. It needs a new part so just wait until the repairman comes.




                      "Going round in circles" means making no progress to reach a decision.




                      John and his team have been going round in circles trying to design a new logo. John wants something simple but other people in the team keep adding details.







                      share|improve this answer















                      "Beating a dead horse" means you are doing something that will have no effect (horses are hit with whips to make them run faster, but if your horse is dead, no amount of whipping will make it move)




                      There's no point trying to fix the photocopier; you're just beating a dead horse. It needs a new part so just wait until the repairman comes.




                      "Going round in circles" means making no progress to reach a decision.




                      John and his team have been going round in circles trying to design a new logo. John wants something simple but other people in the team keep adding details.








                      share|improve this answer














                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited 36 mins ago









                      bko

                      3876




                      3876










                      answered 7 hours ago









                      James KJames K

                      36k13889




                      36k13889























                          2














                          The first thing that sprang to mind was “an exercise in futility”, or doing something that has no hope of achieving anything useful.




                          Trying to bail out the boat with my tea cup was an exercise in futility. The water was coming in too fast.







                          share|improve this answer





















                          • 1





                            There is also a Sisyphean task, but that is more like unending and tormenting and not really useless: merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Sisyphean

                            – ColleenV
                            7 hours ago











                          • Thank you all, but neither seems to fit the meaning in a foreign language. Which is: waste time on useless conversations. “They have nothing new to say and will be spending hours repeating what has already been said many times before ( usually useless, outdated information). May be Sisyphean task is the best option.

                            – Rushn
                            5 hours ago


















                          2














                          The first thing that sprang to mind was “an exercise in futility”, or doing something that has no hope of achieving anything useful.




                          Trying to bail out the boat with my tea cup was an exercise in futility. The water was coming in too fast.







                          share|improve this answer





















                          • 1





                            There is also a Sisyphean task, but that is more like unending and tormenting and not really useless: merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Sisyphean

                            – ColleenV
                            7 hours ago











                          • Thank you all, but neither seems to fit the meaning in a foreign language. Which is: waste time on useless conversations. “They have nothing new to say and will be spending hours repeating what has already been said many times before ( usually useless, outdated information). May be Sisyphean task is the best option.

                            – Rushn
                            5 hours ago
















                          2












                          2








                          2







                          The first thing that sprang to mind was “an exercise in futility”, or doing something that has no hope of achieving anything useful.




                          Trying to bail out the boat with my tea cup was an exercise in futility. The water was coming in too fast.







                          share|improve this answer















                          The first thing that sprang to mind was “an exercise in futility”, or doing something that has no hope of achieving anything useful.




                          Trying to bail out the boat with my tea cup was an exercise in futility. The water was coming in too fast.








                          share|improve this answer














                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer








                          edited 34 mins ago









                          Nathan Tuggy

                          9,15593452




                          9,15593452










                          answered 7 hours ago









                          ColleenVColleenV

                          10.5k53260




                          10.5k53260








                          • 1





                            There is also a Sisyphean task, but that is more like unending and tormenting and not really useless: merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Sisyphean

                            – ColleenV
                            7 hours ago











                          • Thank you all, but neither seems to fit the meaning in a foreign language. Which is: waste time on useless conversations. “They have nothing new to say and will be spending hours repeating what has already been said many times before ( usually useless, outdated information). May be Sisyphean task is the best option.

                            – Rushn
                            5 hours ago
















                          • 1





                            There is also a Sisyphean task, but that is more like unending and tormenting and not really useless: merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Sisyphean

                            – ColleenV
                            7 hours ago











                          • Thank you all, but neither seems to fit the meaning in a foreign language. Which is: waste time on useless conversations. “They have nothing new to say and will be spending hours repeating what has already been said many times before ( usually useless, outdated information). May be Sisyphean task is the best option.

                            – Rushn
                            5 hours ago










                          1




                          1





                          There is also a Sisyphean task, but that is more like unending and tormenting and not really useless: merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Sisyphean

                          – ColleenV
                          7 hours ago





                          There is also a Sisyphean task, but that is more like unending and tormenting and not really useless: merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Sisyphean

                          – ColleenV
                          7 hours ago













                          Thank you all, but neither seems to fit the meaning in a foreign language. Which is: waste time on useless conversations. “They have nothing new to say and will be spending hours repeating what has already been said many times before ( usually useless, outdated information). May be Sisyphean task is the best option.

                          – Rushn
                          5 hours ago







                          Thank you all, but neither seems to fit the meaning in a foreign language. Which is: waste time on useless conversations. “They have nothing new to say and will be spending hours repeating what has already been said many times before ( usually useless, outdated information). May be Sisyphean task is the best option.

                          – Rushn
                          5 hours ago













                          0














                          Flogging a dead horse, perhaps?






                          share|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          user86782 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.

























                            0














                            Flogging a dead horse, perhaps?






                            share|improve this answer








                            New contributor




                            user86782 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.























                              0












                              0








                              0







                              Flogging a dead horse, perhaps?






                              share|improve this answer








                              New contributor




                              user86782 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.










                              Flogging a dead horse, perhaps?







                              share|improve this answer








                              New contributor




                              user86782 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer






                              New contributor




                              user86782 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                              answered 7 hours ago









                              user86782user86782

                              132




                              132




                              New contributor




                              user86782 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.





                              New contributor





                              user86782 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.






                              user86782 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.























                                  0















                                  • On the ELU thread that ColleenV linked to, J. Walker suggested spinning your wheels. When a car doesn't have any traction in mud or snow, pressing the accelerator just spins the wheels, and digs the car in deeper.


                                  • Robbing Peter to pay Paul: You still owe just as much, to just as many people, but you've now added the sin of stealing from Peter.


                                  • Mexican fire drill: A sedan has four passengers, one by each door. The car stops, everybody gets out, and gets in at a different door. A lot of rapid activity happens, for no significant change.


                                  • Perhaps the reason you have meetings where you "[talk] about [something] again and again without real desire to solve a problem" is that you have too many chiefs, and not enough Indians? In other words, lots of bosses, but nobody to do the real work.


                                  • Peeling the onion, in order to find its seeds. No matter how many layers you peel off the onion, you never will find any seeds. And the onion will be destroyed in the process. (Lois McMaster Bujold wrote a scene that she summarized with this phrase.)


                                  • If I had some ham, I could make a ham sandwich, if only I had some bread. A totally useless thing to say, because you don't have any of the ingredients for the thing you want to make. (If you don't eat ham, feel free to substitute the sandwich ingredient of your choice.)







                                  share|improve this answer






























                                    0















                                    • On the ELU thread that ColleenV linked to, J. Walker suggested spinning your wheels. When a car doesn't have any traction in mud or snow, pressing the accelerator just spins the wheels, and digs the car in deeper.


                                    • Robbing Peter to pay Paul: You still owe just as much, to just as many people, but you've now added the sin of stealing from Peter.


                                    • Mexican fire drill: A sedan has four passengers, one by each door. The car stops, everybody gets out, and gets in at a different door. A lot of rapid activity happens, for no significant change.


                                    • Perhaps the reason you have meetings where you "[talk] about [something] again and again without real desire to solve a problem" is that you have too many chiefs, and not enough Indians? In other words, lots of bosses, but nobody to do the real work.


                                    • Peeling the onion, in order to find its seeds. No matter how many layers you peel off the onion, you never will find any seeds. And the onion will be destroyed in the process. (Lois McMaster Bujold wrote a scene that she summarized with this phrase.)


                                    • If I had some ham, I could make a ham sandwich, if only I had some bread. A totally useless thing to say, because you don't have any of the ingredients for the thing you want to make. (If you don't eat ham, feel free to substitute the sandwich ingredient of your choice.)







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                                      • On the ELU thread that ColleenV linked to, J. Walker suggested spinning your wheels. When a car doesn't have any traction in mud or snow, pressing the accelerator just spins the wheels, and digs the car in deeper.


                                      • Robbing Peter to pay Paul: You still owe just as much, to just as many people, but you've now added the sin of stealing from Peter.


                                      • Mexican fire drill: A sedan has four passengers, one by each door. The car stops, everybody gets out, and gets in at a different door. A lot of rapid activity happens, for no significant change.


                                      • Perhaps the reason you have meetings where you "[talk] about [something] again and again without real desire to solve a problem" is that you have too many chiefs, and not enough Indians? In other words, lots of bosses, but nobody to do the real work.


                                      • Peeling the onion, in order to find its seeds. No matter how many layers you peel off the onion, you never will find any seeds. And the onion will be destroyed in the process. (Lois McMaster Bujold wrote a scene that she summarized with this phrase.)


                                      • If I had some ham, I could make a ham sandwich, if only I had some bread. A totally useless thing to say, because you don't have any of the ingredients for the thing you want to make. (If you don't eat ham, feel free to substitute the sandwich ingredient of your choice.)







                                      share|improve this answer
















                                      • On the ELU thread that ColleenV linked to, J. Walker suggested spinning your wheels. When a car doesn't have any traction in mud or snow, pressing the accelerator just spins the wheels, and digs the car in deeper.


                                      • Robbing Peter to pay Paul: You still owe just as much, to just as many people, but you've now added the sin of stealing from Peter.


                                      • Mexican fire drill: A sedan has four passengers, one by each door. The car stops, everybody gets out, and gets in at a different door. A lot of rapid activity happens, for no significant change.


                                      • Perhaps the reason you have meetings where you "[talk] about [something] again and again without real desire to solve a problem" is that you have too many chiefs, and not enough Indians? In other words, lots of bosses, but nobody to do the real work.


                                      • Peeling the onion, in order to find its seeds. No matter how many layers you peel off the onion, you never will find any seeds. And the onion will be destroyed in the process. (Lois McMaster Bujold wrote a scene that she summarized with this phrase.)


                                      • If I had some ham, I could make a ham sandwich, if only I had some bread. A totally useless thing to say, because you don't have any of the ingredients for the thing you want to make. (If you don't eat ham, feel free to substitute the sandwich ingredient of your choice.)








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                                      edited 2 mins ago

























                                      answered 23 mins ago









                                      JasperJasper

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