Could solar power be utilized and substitute coal in the 19th Century
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Would it be possible for a nation with 19th century to very early 20th Century technology and history and hot desert climate to utilize solar power for electrical generation as a substitute for coal or replace the use of coal in any other way?
Hope this question is more to the liking of this stack exchange.
There is not an abundance of national coal however rivers and ocean could allow for importation of coal.
technology hard-science steampunk
asked 2 hours ago
Echo61505Echo61505
766
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
Would it be possible for a nation with 19th century to very early 20th Century technology and history and hot desert climate to utilize solar power for electrical generation as a substitute for coal or replace the use of coal in any other way?
Hope this question is more to the liking of this stack exchange.
There is not an abundance of national coal however rivers and ocean could allow for importation of coal.
technology hard-science steampunk
asked 2 hours ago
Echo61505Echo61505
766
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Not in the way you asked the question, absolutely not. If it wasn't done back then, it can't be done with 19th century technology, that would be a paradox. But I assume you dont mean literally 19th century technology but something else? Perhaps instead of asking this question, describe what you want to do first and then tell us the exact part, details are king here, that you are unsure about or don't know how to do.
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– Raditz_35
2 hours ago
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Not with solar panels, no, but remember that coal IS solar indirectly.
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– Renan
2 hours ago
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Sorry, but could you state directly what "h se" is, because when I google it, the results are confusing and not related to your question.
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– Agrajag
1 hour ago
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In daytime they had daylight, and solar power does not work at night (at least not with any imaginable technology of the time), this would put a crimp in the development of electric light...
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– AlexP
36 mins ago
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Dann that typo..
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
24 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Would it be possible for a nation with 19th century to very early 20th Century technology and history and hot desert climate to utilize solar power for electrical generation as a substitute for coal or replace the use of coal in any other way?
Hope this question is more to the liking of this stack exchange.
There is not an abundance of national coal however rivers and ocean could allow for importation of coal.
technology hard-science steampunk
asked 2 hours ago
Echo61505Echo61505
766
$endgroup$
Would it be possible for a nation with 19th century to very early 20th Century technology and history and hot desert climate to utilize solar power for electrical generation as a substitute for coal or replace the use of coal in any other way?
Hope this question is more to the liking of this stack exchange.
There is not an abundance of national coal however rivers and ocean could allow for importation of coal.
technology hard-science steampunk
technology hard-science steampunk
asked 2 hours ago
Echo61505Echo61505
766
asked 2 hours ago
Echo61505Echo61505
766
edited 12 mins ago
Echo61505
asked 2 hours ago
Echo61505Echo61505
766
asked 2 hours ago
Echo61505Echo61505
766
asked 2 hours ago
Echo61505Echo61505
766
766
$begingroup$
Not in the way you asked the question, absolutely not. If it wasn't done back then, it can't be done with 19th century technology, that would be a paradox. But I assume you dont mean literally 19th century technology but something else? Perhaps instead of asking this question, describe what you want to do first and then tell us the exact part, details are king here, that you are unsure about or don't know how to do.
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not with solar panels, no, but remember that coal IS solar indirectly.
$endgroup$
– Renan
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Sorry, but could you state directly what "h se" is, because when I google it, the results are confusing and not related to your question.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
In daytime they had daylight, and solar power does not work at night (at least not with any imaginable technology of the time), this would put a crimp in the development of electric light...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
36 mins ago
$begingroup$
Dann that typo..
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
24 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Not in the way you asked the question, absolutely not. If it wasn't done back then, it can't be done with 19th century technology, that would be a paradox. But I assume you dont mean literally 19th century technology but something else? Perhaps instead of asking this question, describe what you want to do first and then tell us the exact part, details are king here, that you are unsure about or don't know how to do.
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not with solar panels, no, but remember that coal IS solar indirectly.
$endgroup$
– Renan
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Sorry, but could you state directly what "h se" is, because when I google it, the results are confusing and not related to your question.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
In daytime they had daylight, and solar power does not work at night (at least not with any imaginable technology of the time), this would put a crimp in the development of electric light...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
36 mins ago
$begingroup$
Dann that typo..
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
24 mins ago
$begingroup$
Not in the way you asked the question, absolutely not. If it wasn't done back then, it can't be done with 19th century technology, that would be a paradox. But I assume you dont mean literally 19th century technology but something else? Perhaps instead of asking this question, describe what you want to do first and then tell us the exact part, details are king here, that you are unsure about or don't know how to do.
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not in the way you asked the question, absolutely not. If it wasn't done back then, it can't be done with 19th century technology, that would be a paradox. But I assume you dont mean literally 19th century technology but something else? Perhaps instead of asking this question, describe what you want to do first and then tell us the exact part, details are king here, that you are unsure about or don't know how to do.
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not with solar panels, no, but remember that coal IS solar indirectly.
$endgroup$
– Renan
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not with solar panels, no, but remember that coal IS solar indirectly.
$endgroup$
– Renan
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Sorry, but could you state directly what "h se" is, because when I google it, the results are confusing and not related to your question.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
Sorry, but could you state directly what "h se" is, because when I google it, the results are confusing and not related to your question.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
In daytime they had daylight, and solar power does not work at night (at least not with any imaginable technology of the time), this would put a crimp in the development of electric light...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
36 mins ago
$begingroup$
In daytime they had daylight, and solar power does not work at night (at least not with any imaginable technology of the time), this would put a crimp in the development of electric light...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
36 mins ago
$begingroup$
Dann that typo..
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
24 mins ago
$begingroup$
Dann that typo..
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
24 mins ago
add a comment |
1 Answer
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Yes, they could. You "just" need a large mirror to concentrate sunlight on a boiler to produce the steam. Power plants that use this principle are in use today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility
The first problem you have is with economy. Burning coal is just way too cheap if you have it available, and it's much easier to get a few megawatts of heat out of burning coal than it is to get the same amount of heat from mirrors. Simply because you need about one square meter of mirror for each kilowatt of sunlight you want to collect, and the mirror needs to be continuously adjusted to the sun. A single man shoveling coal into an engine produces much, much more than just a single kilowatt of heat...
You can offset the economy problem by making coal hard-to-get in your country.
However, the second problem remains: Efficiency. Early steam engines were brutally inefficient, turning only 1% or 2% (Watt's optimized version!) of the heat into actual mechanical work. So, if you have a giant 10x10m mirror ($100m^2$), you only get 1kW or 2kW of usable power output. Anything that requires more energy than that quickly becomes infeasible to power with the many, enormous mirrors you need, which all require man-power to adjust to the sun continuously.
Of course, you can offset this by a) allowing close to modern steam turbines, and b) fancy clockworks that automagically adjust the mirrors. Nevertheless, it remains difficult to get the power from the power plants to where it's actually needed.
answered 1 hour ago
cmastercmaster
3,522815
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Given that the primary motive for building power plants was electric light, and the mirrors don't work at night...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
37 mins ago
add a comment |
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1 Answer
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1 Answer
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$begingroup$
Yes, they could. You "just" need a large mirror to concentrate sunlight on a boiler to produce the steam. Power plants that use this principle are in use today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility
The first problem you have is with economy. Burning coal is just way too cheap if you have it available, and it's much easier to get a few megawatts of heat out of burning coal than it is to get the same amount of heat from mirrors. Simply because you need about one square meter of mirror for each kilowatt of sunlight you want to collect, and the mirror needs to be continuously adjusted to the sun. A single man shoveling coal into an engine produces much, much more than just a single kilowatt of heat...
You can offset the economy problem by making coal hard-to-get in your country.
However, the second problem remains: Efficiency. Early steam engines were brutally inefficient, turning only 1% or 2% (Watt's optimized version!) of the heat into actual mechanical work. So, if you have a giant 10x10m mirror ($100m^2$), you only get 1kW or 2kW of usable power output. Anything that requires more energy than that quickly becomes infeasible to power with the many, enormous mirrors you need, which all require man-power to adjust to the sun continuously.
Of course, you can offset this by a) allowing close to modern steam turbines, and b) fancy clockworks that automagically adjust the mirrors. Nevertheless, it remains difficult to get the power from the power plants to where it's actually needed.
answered 1 hour ago
cmastercmaster
3,522815
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Given that the primary motive for building power plants was electric light, and the mirrors don't work at night...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
37 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, they could. You "just" need a large mirror to concentrate sunlight on a boiler to produce the steam. Power plants that use this principle are in use today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility
The first problem you have is with economy. Burning coal is just way too cheap if you have it available, and it's much easier to get a few megawatts of heat out of burning coal than it is to get the same amount of heat from mirrors. Simply because you need about one square meter of mirror for each kilowatt of sunlight you want to collect, and the mirror needs to be continuously adjusted to the sun. A single man shoveling coal into an engine produces much, much more than just a single kilowatt of heat...
You can offset the economy problem by making coal hard-to-get in your country.
However, the second problem remains: Efficiency. Early steam engines were brutally inefficient, turning only 1% or 2% (Watt's optimized version!) of the heat into actual mechanical work. So, if you have a giant 10x10m mirror ($100m^2$), you only get 1kW or 2kW of usable power output. Anything that requires more energy than that quickly becomes infeasible to power with the many, enormous mirrors you need, which all require man-power to adjust to the sun continuously.
Of course, you can offset this by a) allowing close to modern steam turbines, and b) fancy clockworks that automagically adjust the mirrors. Nevertheless, it remains difficult to get the power from the power plants to where it's actually needed.
answered 1 hour ago
cmastercmaster
3,522815
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Given that the primary motive for building power plants was electric light, and the mirrors don't work at night...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
37 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Yes, they could. You "just" need a large mirror to concentrate sunlight on a boiler to produce the steam. Power plants that use this principle are in use today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility
The first problem you have is with economy. Burning coal is just way too cheap if you have it available, and it's much easier to get a few megawatts of heat out of burning coal than it is to get the same amount of heat from mirrors. Simply because you need about one square meter of mirror for each kilowatt of sunlight you want to collect, and the mirror needs to be continuously adjusted to the sun. A single man shoveling coal into an engine produces much, much more than just a single kilowatt of heat...
You can offset the economy problem by making coal hard-to-get in your country.
However, the second problem remains: Efficiency. Early steam engines were brutally inefficient, turning only 1% or 2% (Watt's optimized version!) of the heat into actual mechanical work. So, if you have a giant 10x10m mirror ($100m^2$), you only get 1kW or 2kW of usable power output. Anything that requires more energy than that quickly becomes infeasible to power with the many, enormous mirrors you need, which all require man-power to adjust to the sun continuously.
Of course, you can offset this by a) allowing close to modern steam turbines, and b) fancy clockworks that automagically adjust the mirrors. Nevertheless, it remains difficult to get the power from the power plants to where it's actually needed.
answered 1 hour ago
cmastercmaster
3,522815
$endgroup$
Yes, they could. You "just" need a large mirror to concentrate sunlight on a boiler to produce the steam. Power plants that use this principle are in use today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility
The first problem you have is with economy. Burning coal is just way too cheap if you have it available, and it's much easier to get a few megawatts of heat out of burning coal than it is to get the same amount of heat from mirrors. Simply because you need about one square meter of mirror for each kilowatt of sunlight you want to collect, and the mirror needs to be continuously adjusted to the sun. A single man shoveling coal into an engine produces much, much more than just a single kilowatt of heat...
You can offset the economy problem by making coal hard-to-get in your country.
However, the second problem remains: Efficiency. Early steam engines were brutally inefficient, turning only 1% or 2% (Watt's optimized version!) of the heat into actual mechanical work. So, if you have a giant 10x10m mirror ($100m^2$), you only get 1kW or 2kW of usable power output. Anything that requires more energy than that quickly becomes infeasible to power with the many, enormous mirrors you need, which all require man-power to adjust to the sun continuously.
Of course, you can offset this by a) allowing close to modern steam turbines, and b) fancy clockworks that automagically adjust the mirrors. Nevertheless, it remains difficult to get the power from the power plants to where it's actually needed.
answered 1 hour ago
cmastercmaster
3,522815
answered 1 hour ago
cmastercmaster
3,522815
answered 1 hour ago
cmastercmaster
3,522815
answered 1 hour ago
cmastercmaster
3,522815
3,522815
$begingroup$
Given that the primary motive for building power plants was electric light, and the mirrors don't work at night...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
37 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Given that the primary motive for building power plants was electric light, and the mirrors don't work at night...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
37 mins ago
$begingroup$
Given that the primary motive for building power plants was electric light, and the mirrors don't work at night...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
37 mins ago
$begingroup$
Given that the primary motive for building power plants was electric light, and the mirrors don't work at night...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
37 mins ago
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Not in the way you asked the question, absolutely not. If it wasn't done back then, it can't be done with 19th century technology, that would be a paradox. But I assume you dont mean literally 19th century technology but something else? Perhaps instead of asking this question, describe what you want to do first and then tell us the exact part, details are king here, that you are unsure about or don't know how to do.
$endgroup$
– Raditz_35
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not with solar panels, no, but remember that coal IS solar indirectly.
$endgroup$
– Renan
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Sorry, but could you state directly what "h se" is, because when I google it, the results are confusing and not related to your question.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
In daytime they had daylight, and solar power does not work at night (at least not with any imaginable technology of the time), this would put a crimp in the development of electric light...
$endgroup$
– AlexP
36 mins ago
$begingroup$
Dann that typo..
$endgroup$
– Echo61505
24 mins ago